shifting into neutral

[bighole]

I have been trying to fix this issue for quite a while with no improvement so thought I would put it up here.
On my grey bike I can't shift into neutral if the bike is running but not moving. As I am rolling to a stop Ill try finding neutral but if I haven't found it by the time I stop it aint gonna happen. If I pull up to a long stop light Ill shut the bike off and shift into neutral, then restart the bike. I have tried adjusting the cable to the point where the clutch slips under load. Shifts into all other gears fine, but cant get the lever to move when stopped.
I have had these things apart a million times and cant figure out what I am missing. Can someone help explain mechanically what may be happening?
Thanks guys,

John

[Suzsmokeyallan]

John I'll start with the obvious, is the shifter drum detent plunger and spring in the engine behind the bolt???

[Buffalo-guy]

John.
The only thing that comes to mind, is the clutch plates. Are they completely flat when they are out of the clutch basket? Do any of the steel plates show any hot spots, which would signify warpage when hot. Stack the steels together and check if any light is visible between them, or if there is any springy sensation when you press down on the stack. The clutch is generating drag, and not letting the transmission move freely when the bike's not moving. What grade of oil do you use? It must be motorcycle rated for the wet clutch thing to do it's job. Regular motor oil eventually leads to slippage, and heat build up, and then warped plates. Somewhere on this forum is the info for measuring the clutch plates, individually, and as a stack. Good luck with it. Cheers.
Fred

[bighole]

Allan,
No problem starting with the obvious, yup its there.
Fred,
I will go back and pull the clutch apart again. Why not, its almost been a year anyway! I will admit, I am running straight 10w40. I was experimenting with Amsoil and other expensive stuff but didn't notice any major differences.
Thanks!

-John

[oldjapanesebikes]

GT550 or GT750 ? I ask only as 10W40 is thin for the GT750.

I'd echo Fred's comments - automotive oil will eventually lead to clutch problems over time, as the additives differ and it isn't rated for motorcycle wet clutch applications.

[Suzsmokeyallan]

While youre in there checking the steel and friction plates for trueness on a piece of glass, look at the basket fingers for grooving. I'd hate to think you are losing a finger on the outer basket, on some bikes with a lot of miles they have been known to crack and eventually break off causing damage.
When removing the plates make sure they slide easily off the basket as well.
The oil forum debate will raise its head again on this but I've never had a problem with using Castrol GTX 20/50W in these bikes.
Let us know what you find once its open.

[bighole]

I was trying to stay away from the dreaded oil thing....
This is a GT750 with about 3000 miles since a COMPLETE rebuild. I have had this neutral problem since mile 1, just finally worked out the other issues and have gotten to this one on the list.

-John

[bighole]

Tore into it over the weekend. Found that the clutch steels were showing obvious signs of "stickage" where the cork plates had left marks on the steels. Also there were random polished spots on the steels... checked them on a large ceramic cutting board and showed very minimal warpage. The basket and cork plates looked fine. I reassembled everything with new steels and put in some castrol 20/50 (had some sitting around for the rotary). Did not have a chance to fire it up and test yet as I was also sealing up a gear shift indicator leak and sorting out the rear brakes.
Curious about the condition of the steels- could that have been caused by using straight motor oil?

-John

[oldjapanesebikes]

Curious about the condition of the steels- could that have been caused by using straight motor oil? -John

That's a question guaranteed to offer a lot of conflicting comment

It would be interesting to know whether you also checked the thickness of the friction plates. I've read that swelling of the plate material is possible due to some oil additives, leading to drag and steel plate bluing.

[Craig380]

Every Suzi 2-stroke with a conventional one-down shift pattern I've ever had has been the same with neutral: if it isn't in neutral just before I stop completely, it's REALLY difficult to get, especially from first gear. It's easier to tap in from second.

If I have come to a halt in gear, my trick is to actually 'foot' the bike forward with my standing leg, this usually sees neutral engaged.

[bighole]

Well, I guess that did it. Without kicking off the oil thread again I will just say that the castrol 20/50 seemed to make the difference. If stopped with the motor running I can now get it to shift where as before you couldn't budge the shifter.
Not that it shifts like silk but at least it is now possible. Thanks again guys!

-John

[Suzsmokeyallan]

Hi John, well its difficult to make comments when your only working Buff is miles away, but this last week in Canada i had a chance to test the issues you had using my 76 as a reference.
On mine its very easy to shift it into first and second and still find neutral easily while the bike is stopped and idling.
Naturally shifting through more gears at a stop and getting back to neural requires a slight rocking while in gear to allow the shifter dogs to re-align.
The GTX 20/50w works and ive used it for years, but everyones results vary, so my opinion is just that,,,,mine, (see ive avoided the oil debate) lol.

Were your friction plates the aluminum backed ones or the older composite core type.
The older ones tend to swell up in both directions, they get thicker and also enlarge to grab onto the basket fingers making shifting a brute. It would have been good if you had measured the thickness of the friction plates for a reference to stock modern ones.